?

Log in

No account? Create an account
athgarvan

Same Sex Marriage Campaign in Ireland

A Convention re-examining the Irish Constitution got around to its most controversial topic last weekend, namely same-sex marriage. It's beyond doubt that at the moment there appears to be widespread support in Ireland for same-sex marriage.

But other states have passed referendums defining marriage as being between a man and a woman, even though polls frequently showed the contrary position leading at the start of a given campaign.

I ask myself: What does gay marriage involve?  Can it or does it involve what used be called sodomy - by which I mean; anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex?

If so, I'm out! Or am I living in the dim but, for many of us, not so distant past?

Comments

Please allow me to respectfully address your concerns, as I have been talking about this non-stop for the last several weeks here at my seminary.

"Sodomy" as you call it goes on whether it is legal or not. It goes on within legally married heterosexual couples. If the main thing that you want stop is sexual practices that you, personally find distasteful, preventing same-sex marriage will have absolutely no effect.

Also, keep in mind, sexual practices between women are quite different than those practiced when there is a man involved. By this logic, then perhaps ONLY lesbians should be allowed to marry (?)

It's not about sex, it's about love, and the fact that I can no more fall in love with a man than you can. Would you want to be forced to marry a man or not marry at all? Right. Neither do I.
For many gay marriage means a legal binding commitment so that when one's partner is ill that the family cannot forbid them to visit their partner in the hospital. Or, the family can try and take the house away from a surviving partner and leave them homeless. For others it is a loving commitment. While I am not gay, or married, I don't believe that marriage is just about how people have sex. No one has to be married for just that.
It's a matter of human rights.

There are some heterosexual (and homosexual) practices that I don't, personally, like to imagine. However, that does not give me a right to ban marriage between people who enjoy said kink, or even ban pornography featuring that kink. (This is referred to in my part of the internet as My Kink Is Not Your Kink but Your Kink is Okay.)

One of the human rights is that to family life. If your preferred partner is of the same sex, you should have the right love and, indeed, to marry that person and live with them with all the legal protection your home country provides.

That's all there is to it, really.
What my friend here said.

No one is asking anyone who doesn't wish to partake of any kind of sex to do anything at all.

I know you're celibate and I respect that completely and I don't think it costs much to respect how others chose to lead their lives.

I'm straight (heterosexual) and happily so and am happy to know that others are gay or asexual or whatever and happily so.

What we choose to get up to in our respective bedrooms is nobody's business but our own and our partner's. :o)
Please forgive me if my responses are not ascribed to the proper comments. My laptop is acting up.
A lot of deleted comments, I notice.

Is that your laptop travails or are you being trolled?
If marriage is just for the creation of children then it makes it sound like someone is breeding dogs or cattle. Oh well. I still believe tat marriage is more than farming.

Edited at 2013-04-17 22:19 (UTC)
Not only the creation. It's the most basic thing, the beginning.
sodomy as you describe it occurs in both same- or opposite-gendered situations, and is far more common in opposite-sex couples.

if you're out, well, i doubt you have many people lining up to engage in such practices with you anyway. but really, what's it to you what other people do together in private?

same-sex marriage is about marriage, not sex (i say this as a longtime resident of the first of the united states to legalize marriage equality, and a good friend to many same-sex married couples). that is to say, it's about having legal rights regarding sharing finances and householding, about care and visitation and decision-making during illnesses, and the status of being a widow or widower after a spouse's death. people can have any kind of sex without being married, but marriage is a particular social privilege conferred upon couples who choose it. they may or may not be having sex; it isn't a requirement that they do, and some people engage in "companionate" or asexual marriages with partners regardless of gender.

i support marriage equality because i believe in marriage; in the goodness of recognizing vows to love and care for and particularly form pairbonds between two adults. and frankly i don't think it's anyone else's business if they engage in "sodomy" or indeed in sex at all; my prurience has its limits.
"same-sex marriage is about marriage, not sex"

If so, why is the word 'sex' at the centre of the whole debate?
I truly believe that a lot of the issues people have with same sex marriage is a lack of understanding of how relationships developed. There are estimates, based on sexual dimorphism, that committed, monogamous relationships have existed for four million years. Every culture has a formal binding ceremony, and belief that shows by their own law and custom, the couple and their family were/are a unit.

The etymology of the word stems from the Latin marītāre and primarily has been used for male/female relationships, but humans, along with at least 250 other species, have some who are genetically attracted to the same gender as themselves. The story of Saint Sergius and Saint Bacchus would indicate that, whether they existed or not, such was known and accepted in the early years of Christianity.

What most people do not get is that as our laws currently stand (across most of the Western world) without the legal protections offered by marriage, a couple who may have been together for forty years can be barred from hospital visits even to the extent of losing their chance to say goodbye to each other, if one partner's family has never accepted their relationship. The blood family have all the rights in that situation. Are you truly prepared to say they deserve to suffer for a) something that is how they were created and b) because you personally don't like that their relationship includes a sexual aspect?

Replacement

I'm affraid, the "common sens" should be replaced by the "rare sens". And then the same-sex marriage can be allowed.
Most people here have already made the case for marriage equality most eloquently.
The term marriage is used both legally and sacramentally. They are not the same thing.
But the usage is established and embedded in both cultures.
Common to both cultures is the commitment of two individuals to be responsible for each other and to from a partnership to support a family unit if that is planned.
Sexual activity has no part in legal marriage.

As a side note, I knew a couple who took private vows of celibacy and had a public Catholic sacramental marriage.
Your last sentence wonderfully proves the point that marriage isn't all about sex although I'd say that sexual activity has a place if both partners desire it and if they don't? Why, then that's fine too!

As others have said, it's the media and some religious organisations which seem sex obsessed.
I have three things to say here. First, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on, my dear--that you had the courage to put it out there and invite debate says a whole lot about you as a man, as a human being, and as someone who might not be as adamant about his stand as he thinks he is. Your curiosity shows, and for this, I am impressed.

Second--my brother has been married to his husband for thirty one years. They have been legally married in several states, however they must reside in a state that recognizes their marriage for it to be legal. At the moment, they do not. They have three children--all of them thrown away by society at birth who are now healthy, happy young adults with two parents who love them and have raised them to be extraordinary human beings.

Third-waaaay back in history of the world, it was recongnized that if you control a peoples' sex lives and their God, you control the people. It has worked for the Catholic Church for quite a while now. I don't see it changing any time soon.